This was the question we had: “Is it correct that all lives matter? Whose life matters less than someone else?“
All names were deleted, except mine. I made the decision to type these comments in alphabetical order.
I want to thank everyone for your comments. You can add more after at the bottom of this blog.
All lives can’t matter till black lives matter. You can think of it as math. Non-black lives plus black lives equals all lives. If you take out black lives, then all lives do not matter.
Alright y’all, I’m out. Those of you I’m in conversation with, your minds aren’t going to be completely changed by me in this one Facebook thread. I hope that your hearts might be changed a little bit though. Yes, all lives matter. God created every single human being on this planet perfectly and uniquely and no one person should be discriminated against for the way they were created. My Jesus stands with the oppressed and loves all. It’s Not my job to say who has a more important life… (Karl, I don’t think you’d want anyone saying that about your family members. So let’s not say it about anyone else’s.) but black people are being killed on the streets and in their homes by people who hold power and that isn’t okay. So I will continue to say black lives matter and stand with my black siblings and we continue to fight against the oppression they feel every single day. May God bless you all
Ask yourself this: Do I react viscerally (irritated, angry, etc.) to “Black lives matter” but not to “Blue lives matter”? If not, why not? Logically speaking, there is no difference in the comparison between the Black/All and Blue/All statements. They relate to each other in exactly the same way (i.e, you are 100% in favor of All Lives mattering all the time, OR you recognize that some lives are getting short shrift at times).If you feel angered by one and not the other, then it would be good to recognize that your objection to BLM has nothing to do with respecting “all” lives and is, instead, something deep-seated that rests in your emotional brain, as opposed to your logic center. This acknowledgment will help you identify social-media triggers that are selectively chosen for you to see, and are designed to elicit an emotional response. To me, that’s what this about. Having that internal dialogue; questioning things within myself and becoming conscious of how those biases manifest in my outward behavior. And when I say “you,” I mean everybody, not Karl.
Black lives matter less to a lot of people.
Every life is of infinite value. This should not be about trying to qualify a life.
Everyone’s life matters to me no matter what color so that’s why I’ll say all lives matter!
Everything matters. All lives matter.
Geez here we go again. Love you, Karl, but I’m snoozing this post. Y’all feel free to crucify and insult me. I won’t see it. This just confirms for me that it’s not time for me to return to church.
Great and complicated discussion with many more perspectives then I realized there could be. Definitely thought provoking. Good Luck
Has your life ever felt in danger when pulled over by a police officer because of your skin color? Have you ever been discriminated against because of what you look like? Have you ever been told no because of the amount of melanin in your skin? This isn’t just some narrative to be pushed. These are human lives that are being taken.
How many white folks you reckon have been lynched?
I agree that a lot of decisions made by cops are split-second ones and involve firearms. But George Floyd’s killing was not. I think that’s why it was so shocking to many people.
I am stunned and mystified by your response. I hesitate to say where it takes me, and I’m not interested in using this forum in a discussion of the value of various human lives.
I have been pondering this scenario; and, ironically, this scenario involves numbers. We all know how it would turn out and it has nothing to do with the value of a life. This is how it would go because this is how it has always gone. The strongest survive (very Darwinian here) even if they have horrible lives. Who dies — the disabled, the weak, the very young, the old, the infirmed. I refuse to buy into that and to qualify their lives so, just wondering, how do you? Is there not a third way?
I have no problems with skin color. I do have a problem with attitude. I do have a problem with the agenda behind the so called BLM. Smoke and mirror to keep the narrative alive and the people divided.
I think it’s safer to say that when people say BLM, others think they are saying ONLY BLM..
I think we are all getting it twisted. Due process matter. The systems in place that keep everyone safe matter. The people who take it upon themselves to expedite the situation; they are often times idealized, but scrutinized for what they believe in. Without the BLM movement, the all lives matter narrative wouldn’t exist. After all, I heard no cry for all lives until black people started perishing under police custody. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with how we are choosing to respond and communicate with each other.
I would never say a person’s life was of low quality when each is of infinite worth. I am really struggling to get your point here, Karl. On the face of it, it seems very Aryan in tone and I vehemently object.
I would never try to measure the quality of a life. I will leave that to God. Here is a personal story. I spent my summers in a town of less than 500. One family was very poor and there were no wealthy people in town. But they were so poor that when their house burned, the people in town built them one. Their son was my age to put it into perspective. They never had AC, a hot water heater or a car. The husband hitch-hiked into a larger town every day to go to work. They grew their food. They wore cheap clothes. Did their lives matter; did they contribute much to the world. The world would say “No” but I can tell you they contributed to my life. I expect to see them in heaven and will be peeved if they are not. I refuse to get into such a discussion as taking qualitative measures if a life. That’s ridiculous. So, yeah, we are left with quantitative. When we speak of the Holocaust, we speak in numbers. We don’t speak qualitatively, now do we???
I’m also native, the largest mass killing by the government was of 88 Native Americans. The history to African Americans is very similar. That’s why they are included with all lives matter!
Is it correct that all lives matter? Yes. Whose life matters less than someone else’s? Every bodies. See Philippines 2:5-11
It is a mistake to use quantity in this analysis. We can count numbers, but a qualitative analysis does not ask “how many,” but instead, “how well.” To say that that a person’s life is of high or low quality, is much harder to determine.
It just so happens that my father was Jewish. In the 60’s, 70’s and 80′ s the social climate wasn’t one that was Jewish friendly. Our family was denied social activities and private school choices. My father was jailed for being on the streets driving after a restricted time. So yes, I have, my family has experienced prejudice. Question back at you, have you?
Karl, this is in support of your belief!! All lives matter! Black, Hispanic, Asian, White etc…Will yours?
Karl, yes all lives matter. Duh. But black people’s lives are being taken by those in power and it seems that no one cares because very little is being done about it. My life doesn’t feel threatened when I get pulled over by a cop and I can probably assume correctly that you have never felt that way either. But I will continue to speak for myself. I have never left my house thinking, I need to make sure I tell my parents or Will that I love them because if I might be killed if I’m pulled over or seen as “threatening” for wearing a hoodie. I have never thought that because of my skin color that I was going to be killed and forgotten. Breonna Taylor, a 26 year old young woman, was killed in HER OWN HOME MONTHS ago and nothing has been done. Her life was taken. She has a family who loved her. She had dreams and aspirations. But now none of that will happen. And the men who killed her are going on and living their lives. Elijah McClain was killed in police custody. A 23 year old young man. Someone thought he looked suspicious and called the police. They stopped him, took him to the ground, put him in a certain hold that restricts blood to the brain and renders them unconscious. Medical responders arrived and they injected him with ketamine to “calm him down.” He went into cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital and then died a few days later. Karl, he was walking and listening to music dancing and he was killed for it. Later, those cops who killed him were taking pictures mocking the whole thing. THIS IS WHY BLACK LIVES MATTER!!!!!! These stories and so many more are why black lives matter.
Let’s also remember as your dad would say being a police officer is optional being black is not. If they are that afraid that they would jeopardize others lives, find a new profession. From your former cop dad.
My husband was an officer and that is a false equivalency. Being an officer is optional; being black is not. Truly, right now, would you choose to be black.
Not necessarily. I’ve had my uniform off and been threatened with my family at a mall by a criminal, actually my home needs to be confidential because of threats to my family.
Of course it’s literally correct. But IMO, it’s argumentative and impolite. The original assertion of the BLM slogan was that police did not value the lives of black people as much as the lives of white people. That meaning has been extended to society as a whole. To use a different example, if someone says, “The needs of disabled people are ignored by city planners,” you don’t respond by saying, “Well, the needs of ALL people are ignored by city planners.” Such a response rejects and belittles the point of the original speaker.
Police lives are being threatened and for sure no one cares, I have to tell my family I love them everyday because I leave my house thinking I may be killed today. I worry about my life and the lives of my family because of the uniform I wear. I have a family who loves me 4 kids under the age of 9, I have dreams and aspirations. No one has ever died in my custody and I have never killed anyone. But I have been shot at in 4 different occasions, shot once after someone shot at me over 60 times. I have been stabbed, I have been hit in the head and in the genitals. I have been strangled which damaged my throat. But they still say I’d be better dead. Leaving my entire family without income and bills they can not pay. Does my life matter? All this in only 7 years. Many police officers have similar stories! Black lives matter to me that’s why I say all lives matter!
So this is why BLM has become a subject of discussion and why people are being divided, which is what the Second BLM movement wants. The dilemma for me, and I believe many others, is this: how does one support the First movement without looking as if one supports the Second movement as well when one DOES NOT support the second? For me the answer is ALL LIVES MATTER! This includes Black Lives even though it is not drawing attention to that one population which I know is the point of that saying, yes I understand that point and I agree with it. The reason I am not comfortable with saying Black Lives Matter is because I DO NOT support the Second movement of Marxists who are trying to take down the democracy that, even though may not be perfect, is the best form of government that could be for this nation. The “All” in the constitution that was not inclusive at the time of it’s writing has been corrected for each one that appears in the document through each one that appears in the document through amendments, proclamations and legislation. I believe that when we all work within the framework of the constitution we can and will build up one another instead of tearing down one another.
That’s awful. But my questions were about skin color.. not religious beliefs. And uh yeah absolutely. Been called a chink. Have had people told me to go back to my country. Have had people ask if I ate dog. Have had people speak fake broken “Chinese” at me to make fun of me. Have had people pull their eyes back to mock the shape of my eyes. But all of these things have never amounted to me feeling THREATENED and have never left me feeling like my life was over.
That’s not my responsibility nor the responsibility of any cop or any other person to determine the worth of someone else’s life and then take it. And that’s what is happening. That’s why black lives matter.
The problem being that, historically speaking, black lives have been undervalued in numerous and frequent times. Look at the stats.
There are 2 different movements at work in BLM. FIRST- the movement that is trying to bring attention to some injustices that occur in all civilizations. Throughout history where a minority population is subjugated, there are injustices wrought upon them until circumstances change, sometimes slowly other times very quickly. Yes the history of our country shows that the black population has had injustices at the hands of those with the influences, mainly Caucasians. But, over time and through armed conflict and Constitutional changes, those injustices have tried to be rectified. Has it worked? Yes it has. Has it been perfect? NO it hasn’t and that is why we must work on it continuously and together to improve it. There will always be people who do not want or seek out these changes. These people will be not only white people but black as well, because they thrive in the conflict. BLM as a movement to seek to right injustices that clearly occur is a good movement that everyone, I believe, can agree with. Most humans do not want other humans to die unnecessarily. SECOND – the movement that is trying to bring the government down and replace it with a Marxist/Socialist/“Democratic Socialist” government. The leaders of the this movement have co-opted the BLM and work under their “BLM” banner. These leaders are self avowed Marxist and work to be as divisive as possible. They do not want to work cooperatively to find answers to injustices but want the rioting and looting and destruction of black neighborhoods to further their cause and show how “unequal” things still are and will continue to be until they have fulfilled their agenda. A problem that this has caused is that some people can’t distinguish the First movement from the Second. Even the media will not distinguish one from the other even though they know the difference.
You may be able to snooze this conversation because you may not be affected directly by the Injustice that black/brown people endure daily. Yes it might be easier just to turn a blind eye to the Injustice and inequality that you may know very well exists for (the other) people. I welcome you to live one week as a black or brown person and experience for yourself the inequities, the fear, the injustice. Going to church is a good thing because we need healing in this nation so that we can all get this right. Right now, no matter what anybody says black lives don’t have as much importance and value to a number of folks in our society. That is why we have to focus on black lives mattering because right now they don’t… So your statement that all lives matter is not true because right now our lives are not mattering in this community in this country in this culture and it has to change so All Lives Matter can be a true statement. I truly hope you understand what we’re trying to communicate here.
You seem to be splitting hairs here, but maybe I’m misunderstanding your response. Let me revise my wording to sound less quantitative and more qualitative. Revision: “The original assertion . . . was that police did not value the lives of black people the same way they value the lives of white people.” If your last sentence means that some people lead better lives that others, that’s true but way off the point. In the context of BLM, we are not talking about lives in the context of virtue, niceness, productivity, good deeds, etc. We are talking about lives in the context life vs. death.
Your life absolutely matters!! 100%! and me saying black lives matter doesn’t mean yours doesn’t. This isn’t a matter of either or when people say black lives matter, but so far the stories of black folks have been left out. I hate that you are in so much danger, and I don’t wish that for anyone. My dad was a cop back in the day and I’m thankful I never had to live through that Anxiety. but you can take off that uniform. You can walk away from that profession. You may say you couldn’t, but all honesty, you could. Black people can’t change the color of their skin. Me saying black lives matter doesn’t mean your life doesn’t matter. Doesn’t mean that you dying wouldn’t leave a huge hole in people’s lives because I’m sure it would! But the holes being left in the lives of black families, those holes that no one is doing anything about to prevent it from happening ever again, that’s why black lives matter.
Your life matters to me. Everyone’s does. I’m praying for law enforcement. My brother-in-law is an officer, and I’m worried how y’all are being made targets. Please know many of us still support you.
I have never seen this many reactions to a post, as I we had on the issue on Racism, Statutes, and Monuments.
One of the best posts that I read recently was by Brian H. Spitzberg. I have known him for more that 40 years, when we were debaters at UT Arlington. He is Senate Distinguished Professor in the School of Communication at San Diego State University. His primary areas of research involve interpersonal communication skills, jealousy, conflict, coercion, violence, and stalking. This is one of his books:
The Dark Side of Relationship Pursuit: From Attraction to Obsession and Stalking (2nd Edition) by Routledge; 2 edition, 2014)
“Statues are not referents. But as symbols, they are literally raised to a stature of prominence for collective public adulation, when they do not represent the collective public. And worse, they represent (symbolize) dominance over substantial portions of that collective population. The symbol is not the thing it represents, but equivalent with this axiom of communication theory is that meaning is in people, not in the symbol itself. If large segments of the population’s values, indeed, existence, are no longer represented by those statues, publicly funded statements of honorific aspiration and honor, then those people are going to seek to effect change in a societal system long demonstrated as racist in its representation of their civic presence. Your example of Hitler is instructive. Can you point to a public statue of Hitler anywhere in the world? If erected, would you be surprised, much less object, to it being torn down? Hitler wanted to eliminate a race. Many of the persons represented by these statues wanted to enslave a race. You are on the wrong side of history on this one, as are the statues. I personally tend to object to publicly funded statues of historical persons in general, as they are often flawed in ways that send very mixed messages. It bothers me, for example, that MLK engaged in plagiarism in his dissertation, a behavior I fail students for as unethical behavior. I respect Einstein immensely, but he was an adulterer and a rather bad family member. In general, we should honor values and ideals rather than people. But there are much better personages and much worse, and it is time that many of our worse sources of public adulation undergo a reevaluation. And as with so many things in public life, had the violence not initiated the downfall of these statues, the legislative process of such downfall that is now being seriously debated across the country, probably would not have occurred. I am not a fan of civil disobedience in general, but historically speaking it has often been the primary engine of much of the social justice reforms that have happened in our country.“